[Peakoil-announce] Fwd: Inquiry into Taxation. Public Meetings in Canberra Thurs, be there
Alex Pollard
alex-po at trevbus.org
Tue Mar 17 22:55:47 UTC 2009
Forwarding this on from Bruce Robinson.
ACT Peak Oil will prepare a submission to the review. Input welcome. Hope
to see you there.
Alex P
O4O4873828
President
ACT Peak Oil Inc.
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Inquiry into Taxation. Public Meetings this week and next,
please try to attend
From: "Bruce Robinson" <Bruce.Robinson at Westnet.com.au>
Date: Wed, March 18, 2009 1:31 am
To: "'David Bell'" <dbell2100 at gmail.com>
"'Eclipse'" <eclipse-now at optusnet.com.au>
Cc: "'Rex Gunton'" <rex.gunton at bigpond.com>
"'Dave Kilsby'" <david at kilsby.com.au>
"'perril'" <perril at tpg.com.au>
"'Phil Hart'" <aspo at philhart.com>
"'Matt Mushalik'" <mushalik at tpg.com.au>
"'Richard Campbell'" <rcampbell at peninsulacapital.com.au>
"'Michelle Zeibots'" <michelle.e.zeibots at uts.edu.au>
MounseyAG at halcrow.com.au
"'Geoff McKee'" <gamckee at optusnet.com.au>
"'Ruth Wallsgrove'" <ruthwallsgrove at optusnet.com.au>
"'Stephen Alchin'" <sdalchin at bigpond.com>
"'Jenny McIver'" <ajm4jdb at tpg.com.au>
Stuart.McCarthy at aspo-australia.org.au
"'Garry Glazebrook'" <Garry.Glazebrook at uts.edu.au>
"'david kilsby'" <kilsby1 at ihug.com.au>
"'jeannick Guerin'" <jeannick_guerin at hotmail.com>
"'Gregor Ptok'" <gregor.ptok at optusnet.com.au>
"'Cameron Leckie'" <leckos at optusnet.com.au>
"'Melissa McCurdie'" <barmel at bigpond.net.au>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear ASPO-Sydney folk, and others
I went to the Public Consultation meeting about the Taxation review tonight.
(Perth)
Please consider trying to get a couple or more people to attend the
meetings, to mention oil vulnerability, sustainable transport, etc.
Brisbane was Monday, Sydney is Wednesday (18th), Canberra Thursday,
Melbourne Monday 23rd, Geelong 24th, Hobart 25th, Adelaide 26th
It would be good if we could get peak oil and sustainability mentioned in
most of the meetings, from different perspectives, perhaps.
Public submissions are open till 1st May, so perhaps we should put something
together. This could either be individually, from ASPO working groups, or
ASPO-City groups, or ASPO-Australia or some or all of these. I think I
could run to a couple of pages of dot points, which is probably better for
them. Greg Smith was reading a 295 page submission on the plane, one of the
facilitators said.
I was very surprised that only few people were there. Circa 45 (out of 60
booked) in Perth, only 12 in Darwin. Bookings for Sydney and Melbourne
circa 100 people, so one person will get a chance to speak. It was
interesting and well facilitated.
I went in with no preparation (sorry, but I did not know what to expect, and
had not had time or inclination). The summary discussion document was
provided in the room, and I could skim through it, as I got there early.
There was a bit about sustainability and environment things, but one did not
need to have done much homework.
One would only need to say
"taxation should aim to minimise our oil vulnerability, rather than making
it worse", and "level playing field, please"
and mention that the financial crisis arose because everyone listened to
economists as if they were omniscient and market forces were omnipotent.
Since the financial crunch, perhaps there is more reason to consider
sustainability in broader terms than just the economists' bloody
ever-expanding GDP calcuated from money going round and round in circles
"without passing go, and without anyone going to jail" (using the board-game
"Monopoly" jargon.
Greg Smith, one of the panel of 5 was there. He was advising (?) the govt
in the 1980s, when FBT came in, and knows a lot about things. He (and they)
were listening, and only said that there were no plans (apart for retirement
taxation, where they have to report very soon)
He did say in summing up, that fuel taxes were under consideration.
The audience was heavy with self-funded retirees and a few accountant sorts.
http://www.taxreview.treasury.gov.au/content/Content.aspx?doc=html/home.htm
Public Consultation Meeting Details - all meetings 6pm to 8pm local time
Brisbane - Monday, 16 March 2009
Brisbane City Hall - King George Square, Brisbane Canberra - Thursday,
19 March 2009
Southern Cross Club Woden - 92-96 Corinna Street, Phillip
Darwin - Monday, 16 March 2009
Crowne Plaza Darwin - 32 Mitchell Street, Darwin Melbourne - Monday,
23 March 2009
Jasper Hotel - 489 Elizabeth Street, Melbourne
Perth - Tuesday, 17 March 2009
Perth Convention Exhibition Centre - 21 Mounts Bay Road, Perth Geelong -
Tuesday, 24 March 2009
Geelong Conference Centre - Adams Court, Eastern Park, East Geelong
Sydney - Wednesday. 18 March 2009
Mercure Sydney - 818-820 George Street, Sydney Hobart - Wednesday, 25 March
2009
Hobart Function and Conference centre - 1 Elizabeth Street Pier, Hobart
Wagga Wagga - Wednesday, 18 March 2009
Wagga Commercial Club - 77 Gurwood Street, Wagga Adelaide - Thursday,
26 March 2009
Mercure Grosvenor Hotel Adelaide - 125 North Terrace, Adelaide
This meant (and means) that one gets an opportunity to speak a number of
times in 2 hours. One also gets coffee, and in Perth more sandwiches than
one could possibly eat, so take a plastic bag, as they were just going to
throw them out. I could not make much impression.
I spoke as ASPO-Australia and mentioned Richard Denniss' "Perverse Policies"
paper
Denniss, R (2003) Implementing policies to increase the sustainability of
<http://www.aspo-australia.org.au/further-reading/References/Denniss-paper-2
003.doc> transport in Australia. Proc.'W.A.: Beyond Oil?' conference, Perth,
February 2003
http://www.aspo-australia.org.au/References/Denniss-paper-2003.doc
I mentioned peak oil, FBT, and tariff concessions to 4WDs
Suggested states should have power to set petrol taxes (as they control
transport)
Mentioned Margaret Thatcher and the Fuel Tax Escalator, and putting the fuel
tax up to fund hospitals etc
Qld subsidises petrol to about $37/tonne carbon (as an aside, 8.3
cents/litre), so Qld is the only state which has the power to raise fuel
taxes. The Feds have all the rest of the power
States have fixed "vehicle ownership charges", and these should be changed
to "Paygo" "vehicle use charges. For instance, in WA, the third party
insurance on a prime mover and semi trailer that does 300,000 km/year is
less than the third party insurance on a private car. A pensioner doing
3,000 km/year in a little car is paying 100 times as much per km. If the
pensioner's little car runs into a bus full of people, it will not do much
damage. If the laden semi-trailer hits a bus full of people, then many more
injuries are caused. This is a perverse policy, stupid, and greatly
increasing our oil vulnerability. If one leaves the car at home and
catches a bus, then one is paying the fixed charges while the car is in the
garage. There should only be charges when the car is on the road, and the
fuel tax is by far the simplest and most equitable.
We should follow NZ and have an automatic no-fault injury compensation
scheme funded from fuel taxes. A static annual charge is grossly
inequitable and regressive.
5cents/litre or so should be added to the fuel tax every year (the money
will stay in Oz), rather than waiting for OPEC to put the prices up (when
all the excess price is exported). Thatcher insulated Britain to a
considerable extent from the high oil prices (as the rest of Europe was
insulated by their high fuel prices). The rise in US fuel prices from
$1.50/gallon to $4.00/gallon may well have been the tipping point which
precipitated the collapse of the sub-prime mortgage scene. ( as claimed by
Peter Newman) It was OK while house prices were rising. The rising cost of
gasoline may have made some of the marginal mortgages in distant suburbs
unworkable, and as those initial few had to sell, the prices started to come
down, and the chain reaction started. And look where we are today as a
result. Not just high oil prices, but high oil prices on top of
expectations of continual growth.
I was able to quote Kenneth Boulding. (and then ask Greg Smith if he was an
economist)
""Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world
is either a madman or an economist."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_E._Boulding
I hope a few people go to the meetings. It would be good to get a number
of peak oil people, as it was arranged that everyone got a reasonable go, so
I was the only one talking about fuel, transport, etc, so I could only cover
so much before starting to be impolite.
( I mentioned some of the above, and took copious notes, but not when I was
speaking (!), so I do not know exactly what I said. They were recording
proceedings, and taking notes, etc)
Cheers,
Bruce
Bruce Robinson
Convenor, ASPO-Australia
Australian Association for the Study of Peak Oil & Gas.
www.ASPO-Australia.org.au
Bruce.Robinson at ASPO-Australia.org.au
2 Barsden St,
Cottesloe WA 6011
Western Australia
61-8-9384-7409 mobile 0427 398 708
-------------- next part --------------
Dear ASPO-Sydney folk, and others
I went to the Public Consultation meeting about the Taxation review
tonight. (Perth)
Please consider trying to get a couple or more people to attend the
meetings, to mention oil vulnerability, sustainable transport, etc.
Brisbane was Monday, Sydney is Wednesday (18th), Canberra Thursday,
Melbourne Monday 23rd, Geelong 24th, Hobart 25th, Adelaide 26th
It would be good if we could get peak oil and sustainability mentioned
in most of the meetings, from different perspectives, perhaps.
Public submissions are open till 1st May, so perhaps we should put
something together. This could either be individually, from ASPO
working groups, or ASPO-City groups, or ASPO-Australia or some or all
of these. I think I could run to a couple of pages of dot points,
which is probably better for them. Greg Smith was reading a 295 page
submission on the plane, one of the facilitators said.
I was very surprised that only few people were there. Circa 45 (out
of 60 booked) in Perth, only 12 in Darwin. Bookings for Sydney and
Melbourne circa 100 people, so one person will get a chance to
speak. It was interesting and well facilitated.
I went in with no preparation (sorry, but I did not know what to
expect, and had not had time or inclination). The summary discussion
document was provided in the room, and I could skim through it, as I
got there early. There was a bit about sustainability and environment
things, but one did not need to have done much homework.
One would only need to say
"taxation should aim to minimise our oil vulnerability, rather than
making it worse", and "level playing field, please"
and mention that the financial crisis arose because everyone listened
to economists as if they were omniscient and market forces were
omnipotent. Since the financial crunch, perhaps there is more reason
to consider sustainability in broader terms than just the economists'
bloody ever-expanding GDP calcuated from money going round and round
in circles "without passing go, and without anyone going to jail"
(using the board-game "Monopoly" jargon.
Greg Smith, one of the panel of 5 was there. He was advising (?) the
govt in the 1980s, when FBT came in, and knows a lot about things. He
(and they) were listening, and only said that there were no plans
(apart for retirement taxation, where they have to report very soon)
He did say in summing up, that fuel taxes were under consideration.
The audience was heavy with self-funded retirees and a few accountant
sorts.
[1]http://www.taxreview.treasury.gov.au/content/Content.aspx?doc=html/
home.htm
Public Consultation Meeting Details -- all meetings 6pm to 8pm local
time
Brisbane - Monday, 16 March 2009
Brisbane City Hall - King George Square, Brisbane Canberra - Thursday,
19 March 2009
Southern Cross Club Woden - 92-96 Corinna Street, Phillip
Darwin - Monday, 16 March 2009
Crowne Plaza Darwin - 32 Mitchell Street, Darwin Melbourne - Monday,
23 March 2009
Jasper Hotel - 489 Elizabeth Street, Melbourne
Perth - Tuesday, 17 March 2009
Perth Convention Exhibition Centre - 21 Mounts Bay Road, Perth Geelong
- Tuesday, 24 March 2009
Geelong Conference Centre - Adams Court, Eastern Park, East Geelong
Sydney - Wednesday. 18 March 2009
Mercure Sydney - 818-820 George Street, Sydney Hobart - Wednesday, 25
March 2009
Hobart Function and Conference centre - 1 Elizabeth Street Pier,
Hobart
Wagga Wagga - Wednesday, 18 March 2009
Wagga Commercial Club - 77 Gurwood Street, Wagga Adelaide - Thursday,
26 March 2009
Mercure Grosvenor Hotel Adelaide - 125 North Terrace, Adelaide
This meant (and means) that one gets an opportunity to speak a number
of times in 2 hours. One also gets coffee, and in Perth more
sandwiches than one could possibly eat, so take a plastic bag, as they
were just going to throw them out. I could not make much impression.
I spoke as ASPO-Australia and mentioned Richard Denniss' "Perverse
Policies" paper
Denniss, R (2003) [2]Implementing policies to increase the
sustainability of transport in Australia. Proc.`W.A.: Beyond Oil?'
conference, Perth, February 2003
[3]http://www.aspo-australia.org.au/References/Denniss-paper-2003.doc
I mentioned peak oil, FBT, and tariff concessions to 4WDs
Suggested states should have power to set petrol taxes (as they
control transport)
Mentioned Margaret Thatcher and the Fuel Tax Escalator, and putting
the fuel tax up to fund hospitals etc
Qld subsidises petrol to about $37/tonne carbon (as an aside, 8.3
cents/litre), so Qld is the only state which has the power to raise
fuel taxes. The Feds have all the rest of the power
States have fixed "vehicle ownership charges", and these should be
changed to "Paygo" "vehicle use charges. For instance, in WA, the
third party insurance on a prime mover and semi trailer that does
300,000 km/year is less than the third party insurance on a private
car. A pensioner doing 3,000 km/year in a little car is paying 100
times as much per km. If the pensioner's little car runs into a bus
full of people, it will not do much damage. If the laden semi-trailer
hits a bus full of people, then many more injuries are caused. This
is a perverse policy, stupid, and greatly increasing our oil
vulnerability. If one leaves the car at home and catches a bus, then
one is paying the fixed charges while the car is in the garage. There
should only be charges when the car is on the road, and the fuel tax
is by far the simplest and most equitable.
We should follow NZ and have an automatic no-fault injury compensation
scheme funded from fuel taxes. A static annual charge is grossly
inequitable and regressive.
5cents/litre or so should be added to the fuel tax every year (the
money will stay in Oz), rather than waiting for OPEC to put the prices
up (when all the excess price is exported). Thatcher insulated
Britain to a considerable extent from the high oil prices (as the rest
of Europe was insulated by their high fuel prices). The rise in US
fuel prices from $1.50/gallon to $4.00/gallon may well have been the
tipping point which precipitated the collapse of the sub-prime
mortgage scene. ( as claimed by Peter Newman) It was OK while house
prices were rising. The rising cost of gasoline may have made some of
the marginal mortgages in distant suburbs unworkable, and as those
initial few had to sell, the prices started to come down, and the
chain reaction started. And look where we are today as a result. Not
just high oil prices, but high oil prices on top of expectations of
continual growth.
I was able to quote Kenneth Boulding. (and then ask Greg Smith if he
was an economist)
""Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite
world is either a madman or an economist."
[4]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_E._Boulding
I hope a few people go to the meetings. It would be good to get a
number of peak oil people, as it was arranged that everyone got a
reasonable go, so I was the only one talking about fuel, transport,
etc, so I could only cover so much before starting to be impolite.
( I mentioned some of the above, and took copious notes, but not when
I was speaking (!), so I do not know exactly what I said. They were
recording proceedings, and taking notes, etc)
Cheers,
Bruce
Bruce Robinson
Convenor, ASPO-Australia
Australian Association for the Study of Peak Oil & Gas.
www.ASPO-Australia.org.au
Bruce.Robinson at ASPO-Australia.org.au
2 Barsden St,
Cottesloe WA 6011
Western Australia
61-8-9384-7409 mobile 0427 398 708
References
1. http://www.taxreview.treasury.gov.au/content/Content.aspx?doc=html/home.htm
2. http://www.aspo-australia.org.au/further-reading/References/Denniss-paper-2003.doc
3. http://www.aspo-australia.org.au/References/Denniss-paper-2003.doc
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_E._Boulding
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